When do we need to start to speak?

We learn languages in order to be able to speak, easily, comfortably, confidently. This is true for people who need to learn English for work or study, or even for those who want to learn Spanish or Chinese for travel. Most people want to learn to speak.

I am learning Russian and I want to be able to speak.. fluently...one day. I have stated that I was in no hurry to start speaking with native speakers (although I am ready now). I am enjoying my listening and reading and vocabulary learning. I can do it whenever and wherever I want, stress free. I am discovering a new world. I said that I do not want someone correcting my undoubtedly poor spoken Russian. This caused some controversy here and to some extent on a forum at Chinese pod. I know that I will have to start speaking at some point. I know that it will be difficult to try to remember everything that I have learned. I will undoubtedly confuse Russian patterns with Japanese or Korean patterns, depending on where my brain decides to go in the confusion of trying to put together Russian phrases for me.

So when is the best time to start speaking? Some say we should start speaking from the beginning. I prefer to build up some knowledge and familiarity with the language first by listening and reading.Who is right? The answer , to me, is obvious.

You do what you want to do. The overwhelming principle for the self-directed language learner is that it should be fun. If it is fun you will keep doing it. If you feel like speaking right away, speak. If you do not want to, don't. If you speak, do not worry about your mistakes , you will eventually make fewer mistakes. But you do not NEED to speak at any particular time. That is the point. You certainly need not accept anyone else, like a teacher, telling you when to speak and how to speak, unless you want to.

For me, when I start speaking Russian, it will be casual conversations, and it will not be with teachers who correct me. I will know what I have trouble saying. I will work on those phrases, constructions, vocabulary items, in order to be better prepared for my next conversation.

One last thing. I believe that our mirror neurons help us imitate a new language, and even to anticipate in a new language. To really activate our mirror neurons, we need to do a little "priming of the pump". I will get into this more later. A very good way to prime the pump is to repeat phrases. There are a variety of ways to do this. It involves listening and repeating, once or several times.

A person who plays the piano has been shown to possess mirror neurons that fire the same way whether he/she is playing the piano or listening to the piano. A non-player does not do this. In the same way, for our mirror neurons to help us learn, or even to help us become more observant of the language we are learning, we need to train ourselves at making the sounds, in the form of phrases, imitating the intonation of the language. We do not need to record and compare. We do not need to work on pronunication, at least not at first, but we need to make the sounds, in the form of repeated phrases.

I am no scientist. I just believe this to be the case. I have observed this to work for me. I also think that if you believe this helps you to become more observant of the language and better at imitating, then it will work for you. And these are things that you can do almost whenever and wherever you are, without stress and without a teacher.

Speaking is a skill that needs to be developed by speaking. but success in speaking requires a lot of knowledge of the language which is acquired through listening and reading. The order in which you do these things is not important. Listening is the dominant component, and the key to success in the others. If you cannot understand what is being said you will do a poor job of speaking.If you can understand what you hear, you will find it easier and easier to read.

Comments

[claude Blanzé]

Thank's a lot Dear Steve for your very pertinent analysis of the better way for learning language. It is very helpfull for me. I enjoy very much learning English by listening again and again.

In addition, you like cross-contry skying !
I hope you are in good shape now. Take care.

Claude

[Chris]

Pronunciation is something that I am enjoying working on at the moment. I'm working hard at trying to familarise myself with the intonation and rhythm of the Chinese language, while trying to of course remember and master the tones. In class, I have no shame in sounding abysmal at this stage, because like you say, it is through reading and listening that one improves. I have already noticed this improvement in my French after only two months. It's encouraging and exciting, and makes me want to delve ever deeper into the language.

On a side note I'll say that, having just finished The Way of the Linguist, it has been one of the most interesting and helpful books I've ever read, especially the first section. I very much look forward to your next book!

[Chris]

Something I meant to ask earlier, which is also regarding speaking (and a little bit more) is the question: what is your opinion on learning two or more languages simultaneously? Do you think this can be detrimental to the initial intensity period, because you are not focussing all your energy on one language?

Basically, do you think simultaneously learning multiple languages can wield positive or negative results towards learning to speak and correctly read and pronounce in each language?

[Kat]

I am so excited to see Steve spell out and spread the ideas that rhyme with feelings I always had about learning foreign languages. I did not speak English until I was ready, and I want to think this will be the case with my Chinese, even though I avoid speaking now.

[Steve]

Thanks for the comments.

Chris, I do not favour learning two languages at the same time. You can refresh languages you already know, or work on improving in several languages at the same time. but if you are starting from scratch I prefer to focus on one for at least 6 months at a time. You can then do another language for 6 to 8 months and come back to the first one. This is just a rough rule of thumb, but that is what I do, anyway.
Good luck.

[Kristy]

Dear Steve,
I agree with your approach to learning a language. Language is a living thing ... we must use all senses to learn and master it.

Currently, I am learning Russian so as to communicate with a friend I met on the net a few month ago. My friend does not speak English and would want to learn so that he can communicate with me in English, on the phone, and face to face, one day. All along we have been communicating in the form of writing over irc and skype ... with the help of online translation and dictionary (of course).

I am now getting serious at acquiring the language. I have yet spent any money on materials. I found very useful resources and podcasts on the web. My problem is to deal with the overwhelming amount of material I have been getting.

How exactly did you start learning Russian? How do you learn pronouciation (as a beginner)? Do you have any recommendation for books, courses, etc? I really really want to master the language.

By the way, what are your advice for my friend who wants to learn English? How can I help him?

I really appreciate your advice ... and спасибо for sharing your wisdom with me.

K
(I also speak and read Chinese fluently, does that help learning another language, or is this an irrelevant question?)

[Steve Kaufmann]

Kristy,

In answer to your questions;

1) Russian.
It will take you quite a while to be able to communicate comfortably with your friend in Russian. But having that as a goal is a powerful motivator. You will need to absorb lots of the language in a concentrated way.It is best to work in an intensive way with a limited amount of content that you mostly understand.
What I did was to buy a beginner self-learning series like Colloquial, Assimil or Teach Yourself. ( bought all three just toreview essentially the same beginner material in three different formats. I just use the texts and audio and ignore the grammar drills and explanations which are too difficult to understand or remember) These three are the best. Living Language, which I also bought, is not nearly as good. Listen and read and study the vocabulary. Listen to each lesson many many times. But do not wait until you have mastered one lesson before moving on to the next. Keep going to the end of the book, constantly going back over the earlier lessons. Do not worry about the grammar. Do not worry about the pronunciation. Do not expect to be able to speak well for 6 months. Just get used to the language. In one month you will be able to come to The Linguist to accelerate your learning under the guidance of Anna Ivanova who is preparing our Russian content right now.
Russian pronunciation is difficult. The words seem long and are real tongue twisters. You can try to repeat them to yourself as you listen but it will be difficult. Just keep listening, and repeating at times, and you will do a better job in three months. Do not bother recording your own pronunciation, it will just discourage you. Everything will be easier in three months.
If you have found good material on the Internet please let us know. We are building up our library of Russian content in audio and transcript for the launch of our new system.

2) Your friend.
Your friend should follow the advice I gave you or join The Linguist now.

3) Your knowledge of Chinese is a big help. If you already know two languages, your mind is more flexible,and you are more confident of learning a third language since you know you can do it. You are already using a wider range of sounds than just those of your native language, so all in all it is a big help. Once you learn Russian you will be an even better language learner. It just keeps getting easier. That has been my experience.

[Kristy]

Dear Steve,

Thank you so much for replying. I really appreciate your advice and shall follow them.

Yes, I am very motivated to master Russian. It is that desire and passion to speak that drives me.

I bought Teach Yourself Russian on Thursday and have been actively listening (and writing and studying and repeating constantly) to "A Spoonful of Russian" every minute of my waking hours while working on my illustrations (a bit obsess I would say).

You probably have heard of this popular show(http://spoonfulofrussian.com). It is a weekly (almost) podcast produced by Natalia Worthington, a Russian linguist residing in NC, USA. It is the best Russian language education podcast which I have discovered so far. And it's free (at the moment). I have learnt over 100 new words in a week and my pronouciation improves tremendously. She puts in so much effort in her teaching material too.

Voice of Russia also has a program (Russian For You). There are only 5 lessons available online so far.

I enjoyed both of them as the content are very different. I love the music that were featured in both programmes.

For English, I am just curious about how my friend can benefit from your system? Are the material translated to his native language, do the tutors speak and have in depth understanding of Russian?

I found many resources on the internet for him but mostly are conducted only in English . I am sure that there are some good material written in and translated into русский язык. I have yet found any Russian podcast on learning English. Let me know if you know any.

I understand the reasons for learning English in English, being a beginner, I am certainly more comfortable if I can get help from those who can communicate in my native language, especially for specific areas that I cannot explain in the foreign language that I am learnng. Once I grasp my foundation and have more confidence, I will be ready to communicate in a foreign tongue.

By the way, are children books useful to my friend? I read to my little girls to help them master English and Chinese at the same time and I personally enjoyed children books. The illustrations help us to remember words and phrases.

I look forward to your new program and I definitely hope to find the right help for my friend.

Again, I appreciate your input here and спасибо for sharing your wisdom here. Oh, yes ... please do share with me any good learning material that you have found on the web. I will drop you a note when I find one. :)

I look forward to hearing from you again.

K
(Ps: I can also be contacted at creativekristy@gmail.com. Feel free to correspond with me through email if you like.)