How long does it take to become comfortable in another language?

How long does it take to achieve some fluency in another language and how do we get there? I get this question all the time. I should point out that fluency is a vague term. You will never be perfect. There will always be words you do not understand, and constructions that you get wrong, and times when you struggle to express yourself as elegantly as you would like. Language learning is a Sisyphean task.

I think you need 60-90 hours to get over the initial strangeness of the language, and to start learning from authentic content (i.e. not just created for learners), another 180-360 hours to get comfortable with authentic language spoken around you, and then at least another 180-360 hours to be able to express yourself comfortably. This depends on the language and how you study.

I am assuming you study the way we do at LingQ, one hour a day, following your interests, and focusing on listening, reading and vocabulary review. The speaking and writing activity starts at a low level, no more than 30 minutes a week in total, and grows with each period.

I wrote a series of three articles on this some time ago, for a website called Pick the Brain. I am going to develop these ideas into a speech that I can make at libraries and elsewhere for interested people. I have  a short Power Point presentation to help me.  I attach here a link to the power point presentation (4 slides) and to the original series of articles.

Note: The link to the Power Point presentation does not seem to work so you will have to read the article. Sorry. Unless someone can help me get the link working. I saved the Power Point presentation to the Web and linked to the URL here at Type Pad. But it still does not work.

Comments

[ray]

Steve, why don't you try saving the powerpoint presentation into google docs, like you did with the article? google docs works with spreadsheets and presentations too...

[Chris]

I came across an example of a guy who managed to "read technical material, conduct business correspondence and job interviews in Japanese" after studying Japanese on his own for roughly a year and a half.

Further proof that you can get pretty good in a language, by enjoying it and putting in the work. In his own words:

"...I achieved some good results and there were reasons for that, namely:

1. The belief that I could become fluent in Japanese
2. Constantly doing fun stuff in Japanese"

This is his blog. I believe he's currently doing the same with Chinese.

http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about

(I'm not affiliated with his blog or anything; I just find his story very inspiring and interesting, like Steve's and various other people's.)

[Anders]

Hi Steve,

Currently the link to your powerpoint points to the file you have saved on your desktop ( it looks like you have a Mac).

You need to upload it to your server and use that link.
(or use google docs as suggested above)

[Tamaki]

Hi Steve,

I found it very interesting that the guy Chris mentioned above is saying the same things as you've been saying so many times! He also says no one can teach you a language, but you can do it yourself by having fun. These also are your words!
Just an idea, but how about having a conversation with him and podcast it? Both English and Japanese, and if his Chinese is good enough, why not Chinese as well?
The topic would be language learning, but personally I'd like to hear your impression about Japan or what made you decide to do things for other language learners.

Tamaki

P.S. I look forward to your powerpoint presentation.

[Steve Kaufmann]

Tamaki,

The Power Point presentation is only 4 pages long. I have to figure out how to get the link to work.

I would be happy to do interviews in other languages like Japanese and Chinese with anyone who volunteers to be a part of such an interview.

[Steve Kaufmann]

In fact, I would love to be interviewed on why I started up The Linguist and LingQ. In fact I will be on French TV in Canada on October 7. If I can interviewed in other languages that would be great.

[Tamaki]

Hi Steve, I'll look into if I can be of any help on this issue!

[Rob]

Hi Steve,

I've been interested in language learning for many years. In high school (many years ago) I studied Japanese and afterwards went to Japan as an exchange student. Unfortunately, my Japanese teacher was an American and had very limited capabilities in the language. Consequently when I arrived in Japan I was still at a very low level. After one year in Japan, my Japanese certainly improved, but never did reach the level I desired.

Flash forward to the last year when I made the decision to get back into it and become fluent. I knew that the traditional methods were not the way to go, but didn't know what alternatives were out there. Finally after much searching, I stumbled onto a link to Khatzumoto's All Japanese All the Time site and my life was changed.

Everything he said in terms of language learning and learning in general made so much sense, yet the underlying concept of it all was so simple. So I've been following the AJATT way for about 8 months now and my Japanese is much much better.

Just the other day, someone on Khatzumoto's site posted a link to one of your video blogs and I was introduced to you, your blog and LingQ. I must say you made an impression on me as well. I'm always looking for ways to improve my learning and was hoping to get your opinion on a couple of subjects.

In the AJATT method, I listen to Japanese (native content) as much as possible (I work and have a family) and also collect sentences and phrases in my SRS (spaced repetition system or electronic flashcards). The sentence collection is where my first question is directed.

Lately I've been thinking about my way of finding and recording Japanese sentences. After listening to several of your videocasts I questioned it even more. When I find and record sentences, they are usually from a wide variety of sources. For the most part I think this way is generally accepted and encouraged. However, I can't help but wonder if my retention and comprehension might be better off if I narrowed my source material down and focus on one thing.

For instance, a good portion of my sentences and phrases come from examples out of dictionaries. I'll come across or hear a word I don't understand, look it up, read the example sentence, copy and paste that into my SRS and continue on.

What I'm questioning now is whether all of these disconnected sentences may be hindering my progress. None of them have any meaning in terms of a bigger picture; they are just a collection of random phrases. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions about this?

My second question has to do with acquiring more than two or three languages and the maintenance of them. You obviously speak several languages, would you consider your proficiency in each to be relatively equal? At what point do you say to yourself - okay I'm ready to move on to a new language? How do you balance all of them to maintain a high level in each or does that just all sink in once you reach a certain point?

I have so many more questions about language and lingq but I'll stop here for now. Thanks for sharing your language learning experiences and ideas with everyone. Any reply would be very appreciated.

[Steve Kaufmann]

I have great respect for Khatzumoto. He has broken the mould and created a new mould. However, I do not agree with the idea of collecting sentences. I could be wrong.

I prefer to save phrases from content that I find interesting. Content of interest is key. It is the motivator. Sentences are all unique. Phrases represent patterns that repeat.

I usually save mostly words at the beginning and gradually save more and more phrases. Get on lingQ and give it a try.

As to when to move to a new language. When you are able to tear yourself away from one language and ready to engage with another. it is like changing girlfriends, except that with languages you can always go back.

On revient toujours a ses premieres amours!

[Chris]

I agree with Steve. The method of using sentences wouldn't really work for me either, since authentic content just works so much better, and the words you learn from it have more meaning. That said, it seems to have worked for him, though I posted the link originally out of sheer amazement at his claims.

I second the comment, that it would be very interesting to hear a conversation between him and Steve. I think they'd see eye-to-eye on a lot of issues, and perhaps not so much on others.

[Rob]

Thank you for your quick reply.

I do have a few questions/concerns about Lingq. First off, I think it is a great idea for a sight, especially for beginners. However, the problem that I've found with it, and correct me if I'm wrong, but no matter what native language I choose, the dictionary definitions are always in English. At the stage I'm at now, I don't want to work in Japanese - English. Just as I've heard you mention before that you don't want to spend time about reading definitions and descriptions in English about Russian.

I realize the Japanese section says it is in the beta stage so perhaps this functionality is in the works. The other concern I have is the content. From what I gather, the idea behind lingq is that everyone can share content from their native language so that other people learning that language have access to it. It is a terrific concept, but for me I would be concerned as to whether this content was 100% accurate. I mean in terms of user posted content, how would know that what I'm reading or listening to wasn't riddled with errors?

[Steve Kaufmann]

Rob,

Neither is an issue for me. I prefer to have the dictionary in my own language. it is the content that should be in the target language only. Nevertheless, at LingQ you can set your "native" language to whatever you want and then the interface and dictionary will be in that language, which could be the target language.

It does not matter if some of the content is not "accurate" as long as it is native.When you are immersed in the language there is no guarantee that everyone you speak is accurate all the time. Most people are. The occasionally inaccuracy will not affect you if you listen to and read enough content. This is simply not a concern in my view.

[Steve Kaufmann]

Rob,

I might add that on LingQ, the beginner material is usually written in easy and correct language, and thereafter there is a variety of podcasts, literature, history etc, that members either share or import for their own use if there are copyright issues. I listen daily to radio interviews in Russian, I have never even considered the possibility that some of the speakers may not be accurate. I language, the pursuit of perfect is to be avoided.

[Rob]

I did a little more investigating and found that when I change the native language to Japanese for Japanese, some of the dictionary definitions will indeed pop up in Japanese but others will still come up under the Babylon Japanese-English dictionary. It may just be a bug that you want to look into.

[Rob]

Yes, absolutely I agree no one, including native speakers, are going to speak or write with 100% accuracy all the time. I guess I was thinking more in terms of written content and phrases that I would saving. If for example someone were learning English and they came across a sentence like, "I have went to Japan many times," and decided to save the phrase "I have went", they would be learning and reinforcing the wrong way. Perhaps I'm being too paranoid.

But I am definitely going to give Lingq a trial run and we'll see how it goes. Thanks again for the responses.