How many people are serious about language learning

Language learning is a lot of work. It takes a lot of time and effort to really improve in a language. It takes commitment. You cannot just go to someone who will correct your mistakes, or your accent, and then you will be all set.

Many language systems are sold in stores, but 1) people often never really do anything with them or 2) they are content to learn to say "hello" and "how are you." What percentage of language learners are prepared to commit the time and effort required to really learn to speak another language?

What do you think? How should this affect LingQ's strategy?

Comments

[mike]

I guess this isn't what you're hoping for in your business plan, but my guess of what percentage are serious about really learning to speak another language rounds down to 0%. Seriously, if its more than 1 out of 1000 I'd be shocked!

What the programs really sell is feeling good about yourself; you spent some money and showed you were "serious" about it. Look, nobody is going to become fluent in another language with 9 hours of tapes, or 45 hours, or whatever is sold. It takes experienced language learners a lot more time than that to learn a new language.

Most people aren't willing to make that kind of committment. So they jump at things marketed as "The easiest way to learn. Guaranteed!" I bet if you asked them right after they purchased if they REALLY thought after carefully completing the course if they'd be fluent I doubt they'd answer in the affirmative. So if they don't believe it will work EVEN WHEN THEY BUY IT, are they serious about attaining fluency? Heck no!

Its really a game in which companies try to make their profits on one-time sales of programs with catchy slogans and promises, knowing that their program is going to end up sitting in the closet after a few days at worst, a few weeks at best. Which is bad news for LingQ because you're in it for the long haul. The best analogy to the "learn-a-language" biz is the fitness industry; if all the people holding memberships to ever showed up at the gym, there'd be a line thru the parking lot! They make their money by taking advantage of people's intentions to get in shape and so front-load an "initiation" fee and often require a minimum 6-mos (or more) membership so they collect even after the customer stops showing up.

I think you're serious about trying to teach language, but your customers aren't willing to buy what you're selling (eg. commitment and effort). So 2 ideas off the top of my head; one outlandish, the other more serious. First, rather than depending on payments every month in which people can quit and stop the pain (both the money cost and the effort of practicing) how about REWARDING them for persistence? How? Offer a new type of membership that would be *cheaper* over 6 mos if you stick with it. A 6 mos membership sells for the price of 7 mos up front, and then every month a person continues to participate you put 1 week's charge back on their card. If they stick it out 6 mos they're getting paid every month to continue, and the overall cost to them is cheaper!

Ok, that's far-fetched. What you really need to do is tie yourself into people that can't avoid your system. Prisons are a bad class of people, but schools aren't so bad. If you could take over the training in a school you would accomplish your goal of actually teaching something, and at the same time have a steady source of income. Unfortunately they already have tenured teachers who get paid whether the kids learn or not, so its going to be hard to dislodge them...

[micah]

I think encouraging people to use LingQ record all the time they spend studying would encourage them to put in the time required. My language study became more encouraging and productive when I stopped looking at how long it had been since I started studying a language and instead focused on how many hours I had put in. This eliminates excuses like "I tried such-and-such a program" or "I have been studying for this many months and I just can't learn 'X'ish." People will discover they just weren't as committed as they thought.

[Roy]

I've been studying English for 10 yrs at school. Lessons were 45 min long, two times a week. Was it really studying English ? Not at all! I moved to Australia about a yr ago and since then, I've made progress I would never achieved with my previous attitude.

[Patrick X.]

I frequently ask myself the same question. When I logged on to a language exchange web site, there seems to be so many members who wish to practice their target language by talking to other members in their mother tongue in exchange.

But after I finally found one or two members who appear to be willing to do the language exchange with me, I realised that they didn't have any commitment in language learning and some of whom joined the club even with no prior knowledge of their target language and wished to be taught from scratch by other members. This kind of members usually disappear after one or two sessions of discussion on Skype. There you have it, I ended up logging on to the same web site again in hope of finding members who are serious about language learning, though the effort is usually in vain.

[skyblueteapot]

As a matter of fact LingQ does get cheaper the more hours you put into it, at least at the higher end of the scale. It's one of the reasons I work so hard at it. I like to get the most I can for my money! I also like trying to beat Steve ;-)

[Nicole]

Most people who buy a language course do not expect to become fluent. Of course they don't. They have realistic expectancies. They might use a set of tapes to bide the time while driving to their holiday destination. Even though they do not learn the language, it doesn't sound strange to them any more after having heard it spoken for 9 - 15 hours. They may even repeat what is being said in the intervals.
Getting to your destination and being able to greet people in their own language is, however, a sure way to create a taste for more. Having had this experience, tourists will want to repeat this feeling of joy and the next time they set off on holiday, they buy another set of tapes. Maybe even for an other language!

You see, these courses have nothing to do with learning at LingQ. What you do at LingQ is you give a set of tools for free and try to get people to pay for other services. But, if I had not won a try of those services, I would have never thought them useful. People have the experience of having their writing corrected and learning nothing from the corrected item. People have had teachers to speak to who do not themselves speak fluently. Somehow you need to communicate that LingQ is different in that way. Why is there not a sample of corrected text on display on the site? Why isn't there a one on one conversation between a learner and a teacher in the library of each language to get a taste for this way of learning? Why should not members without a plus or premium membership get a progress report once (say after their first 100 linked words) to create a taste for more of that?
People hardly ever decide they want to start paying for extra help when they do not have a good idea of what that help would add to their experience. Give them a bit of a taste, like you did with me..

And on the same vein: to get people to stick with it you already have a powerful tool. The lingQ of the day emails help people return to their efforts. Unfortunately, now they seize to be sent as soon as a person has not linked any words for 64 days. I imagine that it might be just these people who need a nudge in order to continue learning. Perhaps the words should not stop coming unless someone ends their membership. Perhaps if after the fourth time a word has been sent in an email it has not been learned yet, it should be sent again with the advice to check the dictionary for a more comprehensible meaning or to check the examples for something a bit more sticky. If you can get people to revise the LingQs that just will not be remembered, you have them linking again! (So maybe there should be a link to the vocabulary section in the LingQs of the day email?)

Oh, and I almost forgot.. you can make tape-buying holiday folk into LingQ users. You have the materials ready: Who is she, Eating out and Greetings and Goodbyes are made of the stuff people want to hear before visiting a country. Make your own short term learning course with a booklet and tape and make sure to say at the end that if buyers liked the experience, they can find more advanced items in the same language, or the same items in an other language at LingQ. It might be an inexpensive way of advertising!

Okay, that last one I almost know you will not like the idea of. But I thought I'd post the idea anyway. I know I would like to have the beginner texts on tape (CD) with a booklet that also offers a translation. If they were in the store here, I'd want one in Russian with English translation. And I'd get my mum one in Italian, since she is studying that at LingQ with no sound on the computer..

Oh, and the competition idea is good.. it might be even better to spread it a bit. Give more people a chance to win a smaller prize and have 100 point for the winner of each language. That way people learning a language other than English stand a chance to try some writing. And do you realise that it is not until you are in the help-tab of LingQ that you realise writing is charged per word? In Pricing and Signup it is presented as if 1000 points will be charged for each writing submission of up to 300 words. A little intimidating for beginners! It is in the section:
How many points do you charge for tutored services?

Enough for now. I hope you can use any of the ideas.
All the best, Nicole.

[Nicole]

Oh, and I have just been advised that the LingQs of the day email is missing a button to unsubscribe to this specific feed. There could be such a button, could there not, and one to undo the damage in the settings tab? To avoid people feeling spammed?

[Ana]

I'm a teacher, and I can assure you that people really serious about learning anything are rare. But they do exist. In each course I ever gave, I always could identify that small group that are really committed to learning.
So I do think there are some people serious about language learning out there. I don't think it would have too much effect trying to convince people to be more serious about language learning. I guess LingQ is a tool more aimed at those ones, like me, that have been serious about language learning for years but couldn't achieve more than a moderated level of success.

[Drake]

I think that there is a lot of interest in learning, but it is the effort and the fear barrier that keeps people from taking the leap. This is something that I am developing a passion for, helping people become at least bilingual. I was reading a book on language learning and ran across a quote:
"What do you call a person who speaks 2 languages, bilingual. What do you call a person who speaks 3 languages, trilingual. What do you call a person who speaks 1, an American".
To me this is a sad reality because in my experience America is the only country where there is such a small percentage of multilingual people. If people could realize the benefits of being multilingual and the doors it could open up I believe they would be more willing to learn. This brings me to a question, how do you get people over that hurdle with a system like LingQ, or the methodology? How do you get people to understand that the methodologis of LingQ really do work the best? The methods of listening and reading content and not just running down to your local community college trying to fumble through a class. I would also like to hear from people how their multilingualism has helped them in their careers, I know if my case I get paid a premium because I can speak multiple languages. Is this the same experience for everyone, or how has it helped you? Maybe if you can show people that being multilingual can help them in their careers there will be more motivation.

[skyblueteapot]

Most people can't be bothered to learn most things. Some can.

This is what I have found out from being a LingQ tutor:

The LingQ students I have spoken with are amazing in their intelligence and dedication. They realise they need to put in the hours to achieve anything they want.

Many have a solid reason to learn a language, like a job or study need. Not all. Some are learning just for fun.

Some are also learning in formal classes. Many aren't, either because they can't afford them, can't get to them, or just are allergic to classrooms.

Many like not having to compare themselves with other students. One-on-one classes or very small groups are very popular. There are a lot of shy learners out there!

None of them are just learning holiday English. I don't think any of them own any "Learn a language with no effort whatsoever!" tapes.

[Nicole]

Sorry to have to disappoint you, Skyblueteapot, but I am afraid I have to bust your bubble there.. I have loads of those tapes, even in my native language. They are hilarious! Although they do not promise there is no effort involved or that learning a language is going to be the result. But just a quick peer in the cupboard confronts me with 'Voila' (a travelguide to France), 'Op Stap' (a miniature course of Italian), 'Wolkom' (a course in understanding and reading Frisian), 'Uitgesproken Hongaars' (Hungarian in 15 lessons), and here we have one: 'Luistercursus Frans' (learn French within a month). So I stand corrected: they do promise miracles. There is more of course, but the list would be too long. I hope I haven't shocked you?

(just a bit of subtitling: I am one of the students that Skyblueteapot teaches)

[Tony]

How many language learners are prepared to commit the time and effort required to really learn to speak another language? I guess, the tolerance to making effort is very different individually, also, to an unmotivated learner, he/she needs to have someone breaking up a big goal (to speak another language fluently) into lots of small successive, achievable goals.

I know one of the strategy used by some beginner podcasts is repetitively use the words learned in previous lessons, so the learner would have a feeling of making achievements or progress, since most learners are not willing to study word list or flash card because of the boredom.

As for LingQ, since each content are not really connected to each other, I am just wondering, if it is technically possible, the system would scan the word list that a learner collected in the past, and automatically search other contents in the library which contain those new words, and recommend them to the learner, by doing that the learner will see those new words again in different contents, making the learning new words process more enjoyable and relatively effortless.

Another issue, I should've brought it up long time ago, in the flash card, the system grab 4 words before it, and 4 words after it to make a phrase, sometimes making the meaning of those phrases very broken, since they may from part of 2 different sentences, what I thought though, is to get all the words after and before the previous and next punctuations, so it would be way more smooth.

[Tony]

Sorry, missed a phrase in previous post, what I meant is:

Every time when a learner collect a new word, the system grabs 4 words before that word, and 4 words after it...

[skyblueteapot]

Well Nicole, the fact that you can contradict me with such beautiful English just proves my point about intelligent, motivated language learners at LingQ! You may have language tapes, you may even listen to them...but you realise it's going to take more than listening to one tape before you can construct an eloquent argument in your target language.

By the way, how do you get such a high LingQ score? I wouldn't have thought there were enough hours in the day!

[Roni]

Of course there are many people who are serious about language learning, there are many people who actually need to learn foreign languages, not just think it's a good idea or do it for a hobby. Those tend to be the ones who are serious. I think one in a thousand is not a bad estimate, but it's not such a small amount when you consider what it implies.

If you ask everyone in the world if they WANT to speak another language, I think your percentage would be well in the nineties. Many of those don't have the time to learn it, but many also have no idea how.

I think the word 'serious' is also a little to black and white. It sounds like saying 'are you serious or not??' How does someone become 'serious'? Just like learning a language to a decent level, it takes a long time. It's foolish to expect someone who doesn't really know how or has never attempted to learn a language agree to spending a hundreds of hours doing something they think they are bad at. The first step has to be a small, simple, easy one. Like falling in love, there aren't many people who decide to get married after the first date.

It's important to be realistic about it, as you are, Steve, but don't scare away people who find the mammoth task of language learning daunting. I don't think you want LingQ to be an elitist system, only for serious people. What's wrong with learning a few words? When my brother came to visit me in Japan, he did a bit of Pimsleur, tried to read a bit while walking around and then went back to England. Would you mock him for the little he did or praise him for doing anything? Everyone he spoke to was very happy to hear him speak. Probably most importantly for you, if he had used LingQ (and enjoyed/been successful with it) he would use it again a few years later when he 'seriously' needed to learn a language.

If you want to compete with other systems, why not find a way to make LingQ provide some of those what they offer? Nicole had some very good ideas. If people want a simple short-term, holiday-making language learning system, why not let them have it? With LingQ you're not selling a limited amount of CDs, so once someone starts, they can continue forever. There is no 'course', so it never finishes. If a learner starts with LingQ and uses it long enough to be a little successful then they will go back to it. There, you will have made your 'serious' language learner. They will also almost certainly tell their friends (and students) about it, as I have, of course.

One last thing, make sure, as Nicole said, you make it clear what LingQ is and why it helps you learn. I've recommended LingQ to so many people and when I ask them if they've used it they just tell me they didn't really get it. Either that, or I have had to sit for an hour or more in front of a computer with them explaining the system. On the LingQ home page there's nothing that makes it at all clear what your system is, you have to sign up to something you don't know about nor probably trust and in the time it takes you to figure out how it helps you, the average person would get lost and leave. You need a big button on it that says 'TRY IT'. Then, people can be guided through a small piece of content, be explained how to save words and phrases, review them with the flashcards they created and then click a button to download the audio on to there MP3 player. A short piece of content would take 5 minutes to go through and would make everything much much clearer.

[Nicole]

There aren't! I spend part of the night linking as well (^-^)

[Nicole]

And of course: thank you, Skyblueteapot and Roni, for being so nice. Being called intelligent and having good ideas, I am blushing!

[Kevin Geoghegan]

According to the last EC Eurobarometer Report (Feb 2006), about 1 in 5 Europeans intend to improve or learn a new foreign language in the coming year (2006). The most active language learners tend to be young (under 24), with higher education, students and those already possessing language skills in several foreign languages.

However:

Only 6% of language learners have used the Internet to learn a language.

Only 14% thought the Internet was the most effective way to learn a language.

Only 5% said the Internet was their preferred way of learning a language.

The report concluded, "It is observed that self-learning methods ... are not appreciated by Europeans. It could be interpreted that respondents prefer to have external incentives instead of being self-motivated to learn languages."

Still, 5% of 1/5 of the EU is almost 5 million people.

[Steve Kaufmann]

Thank you Kevin, very interesting info!