Watching films in the original version with sub-titles in your language is harmful.

Here is another one of those well-intentioned studies that tries to come to a provocative conclusion that is nonsense. According to this report, "Subtitles in one's native language, the default in some European countries, may actually be counter-productive to learning to understand foreign speech"

Get real! Most people do very well watching movies in the original version with sub-titles in their own language. Countries who do this usually have more fluent foreign language speakers than countries that don't, other things being equal. Sweden, Holland, Portugal come to mind.

I have watched movies in Russian with sub-titles in both Russian and English. At first I could not have read the Russian fast enough to help me. Now that I can, I prefer to do without them. Yes, watching with sub-titles in the same language as the language of the film is a fine thing to do for some people. Good idea. Go for it. Modern DVD's offer the choice of sub-title languages.

But sub-titles in your own language are not "counter-productive" as the report claims, and from a practical point of view, that is what most people will do.

Comments

[John]

Steve, I think it depends on the person and their level of proficiency in the language.

For beginners, I would definitely recommend watching foreign films with their first language subtitles, just to get used to the sound of the language and make it more familiar.

However, more advanced learners will benefit by watching the film with the foreign language subtitles switched on, so they have both audio and written cues. I'm at about the level in french where I can understand what's going on if I have french audio and text. The only problem with that is you often don't get the option. If I want a french film with french subtitles I have to buy the DVD from france because they have the french subtitles for the hard of hearing, whereas the english versions tend to have subtitles in many languages except french, as it's not considered a requirement when the DVD is localised.

Lastly, the audio only option forces you to listen and is the best way to learn, but you really need to be armed with a reasonable level of the language to start with so you don't get completely lost. It helps if you've already seen the film too, so you get some contextual cues.

That's just from my experience, limited as it is.

[Arthaey Angosii]

Actually, I do find it counterproductive to turn on subtitles in English (my native language) when I'm trying to practice my Spanish. The English text is like this "path of least resistance" and I find myself reading more than listening.

Of course, this is a personal preference thing, so YMMV.

[Steve Kaufmann]

All of the above is fine. People do what they like. It is just the conclusion that somehow having the sub-titles in your own language was "counterproductive".

Here I often have DVD's with a choice of sub-title language, and even sound track language.

[John]

Yes, any exposure to the target language is productive to some degree. You're not going to get any worse at the language by having the subtitles switched on. I do think there's a limit to how much you'll learn though.

[Steve Kaufmann]

I do not personally consider watching movies to be an intensive language learning experience. It is more a reward for other activities, like listening and reading, and a source of stimulus.

However, for the large number of people who watch English TV programs and movies in many countries, it is quite effective.

[Kang]

There are tons of people who watch anime with english subs but can't speak/understand japanese at all. Although it may not be counterproductive it certainly doesn't seem very productive either.

[Steve Kaufmann]

I know many people who claim to have learned English watching cartoons. It is not an intensive learning experience, but rather a passive one. You need a lot of input, but it does help make the language more familiar. It is better than watching a dubbed movie. It is not counterproductive. It is also, as usual, a matter of motivation.

[Peter Launonen]

I can't stand watching movies that are dubbed. It just ruins the film, in my opinion. I like watching foreign films with English subtitles so that I can enjoy the film and still hear the actual dialogue. If I were trying to use the film to learn from, I would probably prefer to have the subtitles in the target langauge (if any), but I think the point was made that in countries where films are not dubbed (i.e. they are shown in the original language, subtitled in the viewer's language), people tend to become more confident with foreign languages (at least with English, which of course is foreign to them).

[Spud]

Did anyone actually READ the link to the news release posted above? They are talking about people who already speak a language well, but have trouble with regional accents such as Australian and Scottish. It's in the first paragraph.

[Peter Launonen]

I've read it now and, for the most part, agree with it. My post was a bit off topic. If one is learning the language in the movie, then it would be great to have the option of having the subtitles in the target language, but if the viewer is watching the movie (be it in Russian, Farsi, Swahili or what have you) simply for the enjoyment of watching it, native language subtitles are required and provide much more benefit than dubbing, for example. By the way, have any of you watched Kath & Kim? I reckon it wouldn't be very easy to understand even for non-Australian English speakers.

[Jessica]

We were talking about language learning today in my German class and there is a man from Sweden there and I asked him why people from the nordic countries can speak English so well, and he attributed it to the fact that the TV programs are not dubbed, but shown in English with Swedish subtitles.

[Steve Kaufmann]

Peter and Spud,

Please read the conclusion of the article.

"These findings also have educational implications. Since foreign subtitles seem to help with adaptation to foreign speech in adults, they should perhaps be used whenever available (e.g. on a DVD) to boost listening skills during second-language learning. Moreover, since native-language subtitles interfere with this kind of learning, such subtitles in television programmes should be made optional for the viewer."

[Peter Launonen]

Yeh, I thought the conclusion was a bit odd. Though giving the viewers more options can't be a bad thing. I think that this approach of matching the subtitles with the audio would help more with learning (for those who are watching it purely to learn the language, not to 'follow' the film), but not everyone who watches a movie or tv show in a foreign language is interested in learning that language. And if the native language subtitles are not there, they cannot understand the show/movie at all. I love watching 'world' movies and just hearing the voices and reading along in English.

With kids, when and if they finally decide to learn the language in question, I think that those kids who have watched shows with native subtitles will have an advantage compared to those who have watched them dubbed, and those that have watched them with the same language subtitles (and probably not understood them) might have already lost interest.

[Alex Case]

Steve

So, you're saying it contradicts your own scientific research on the subject, right?

Couldn't be bothered reading it, but from what you said it seems to be saying:
- Subtitles in the language you are learning is better than no subtitles, but subtitles in your own language is worse than no subtitles.
If true, and I can see that for the kind of people they are talking about it would be, that is an interesting result. The next point is to find out what levels, languages etc that is not true for. And the way of finding that out will be through research, not through blogging (neither yours nor mine).

[Steve Kaufmann]

No Alex. I say that this research is a useless although harmless pastime and their conclusions are misleading. I blog to amuse myself and people who follow my blog.

I am selective in terms of the research I refer to, most of which contradicts other research in any case.

but what exactly is your point?

[Glen]

I saw this research yesterday. Right or wrong, in many languages you have no choice but to watch the English subtitles. For example, Chinese movies aren't going to provide subtitles in PinYin (though I wish they would). If you had to rely on Hanzi, it would take years to learn.

[Steve Kaufmann]

What I find misleading about their conclusion is this.

Most people watch movies for amusement. Most people who do not understand the language of the movie, need sub-titles in their own language. There are many people who learn English in this way, or at least become quite familiar with English and that helps their learning. Having the sub-titles in the language they do not understand would not do much for them.

Very few people watch movies in order to improve their ability to understand a regional accent. For the few situations where that is the case, it probably does not matter what the language of the sub-titles is.

If the person really does know English and just wants to learn a Scottish accent for example, he will soon not need any sub-titles.

Just another example of the useless research that goes on that usually the tax-payer pays for.

[Chris]

I agree, it's a pointless study. In the beginning stages of learning a language, native language subtitles are more help to me than reading in L2. Maybe later on I'll switch to reading subtitles in the language of the film, and then soon I don't need them at all. It all just depends on your interests and, I suppose to a certain extent, your language ability.

[Igor]

I started watching Hollywood movies as a kid, never went to English classes as most of the teachers considered me troublemaker (no wonder, it was so boring), never read English until 2nd-3rd year of high school (all that I have learned individually was how to use "a" & "an"), never been to English speaking foreign country and still got all "A's" on English tests. So I have to assume that subtitled movies are responsible for that (They are all subtitled here, they start dubbing some of them in the last year or two), anyway now the subtitles are really bothering me and I feel that I will never catch some phrases if I don't begin listening without them.

But it's not that hard or interesting to find pointless study like this one. Most of the linguists doing them are feeling about their profession as something to do for money, no love for it, and than they do studies for cash, to survive the day. Just ignore the mediocrity.

[Carlos]

I actually learned English from scratch by watching movies with Portuguese subtitles. As a teenager I had no knowledge of English whatsoever, but by watching subtitled movies I started to grasp new words and expressions little by little until I could switch to English subtitles and understand over 50% of a movie. After some time I was able to don't rely on the subtitles for understanding the movies and could just watch whatever I'd watch with no subtitles.
My English is far from perfect, but taking into account the fact that I had never opened a book on English language to learn it, and that I have never studied anything other then the verb "to be" at school and just came to an English speaking country a few months ago, I believe I'm pretty sure that the subtitles were not harmful and if they weren't there I wouldn't have ever learned any English at all.
And I believe that once you have an intermediate to advanced level in a language, it's a natural choice to stop reading the subtitles even if they are there. So IMHO they're not harmful at all, they might be redundant or annoying in some situations but not harmful.

[Greg McCall]

I am a fan of Same-Language-Subtitling --(dynamic karaoke style captioning always on either picture or below and in performance language. If this was added to MTV/music video/media aimed at children/young adults there would be a serious impact on literacy rates. See Kothari's study in India: sls4literacy.com or my classroom use in USA: sls4reading.com or search Same-Language-Subtitling on Youtube or Teachertube.

[Greg McCall]

www.sls4reading.com

[Greg McCall]

I am a fan of Same-Language-Subtitling --(dynamic karaoke style captioning always on either picture or below and in performance language. If this was added to MTV/music video/media aimed at children/young adults there would be a serious impact on literacy rates. See Kothari's study in India: sls4literacy.com or my classroom use in USA: sls4reading.com or search Same-Language-Subtitling on Youtube or Teachertube.