Why people learn languages (Mark Rosenfelder) or, language learning and golf.

Thanks to Kevin, I was  sent to the following article called "Why and when people learn languages."  by Mark Rosenfelder. In this article Mark says the following:

"Languages take immense effort to learn, and people will only learn them if it's socially or economically inescapable."

My reply is that it takes an immense effort to learn to play golf well, very few people succeed, and yet many people continue to play golf. The whole point of LingQ is to make language learning enjoyable. So that people can just keep doing it. Unlike golf, people will almost certainly improve.

Read Mark's article, there is a lot there that I agree with.

Comments

[Glen]

I tend to agree with that. I see a lot of foreigners in China who speak fluent Mandarin and are usually from countries much poorer than China. They have every reason to learn the language as fast as they can - it's a ticket to a better life. Many people from developing countries have given up on the so-called "American Dream" because getting a US visa is tough. China will take just about anyone. For many Westerners living in China, Mandarin study is by and large a hobby.

[Kirsten Winkler]

Hey Steve,
great video and valid points. From my experience as a language coach I see two groups.
The bigger one with 80% to 90% of my students learn a language, German, for a purpose. They are relocating to Germany and Switzerland for their jobs, so they need to learn at least some German to make their life easier. But I agree with you that you need to make the learning process fun. In the end all of my students learn longer than they planed, because they enjoy learning German and are not doing it for just the purpose anymore.

The second group learns French with me and they learn it for no fixed purpose. All of them travel to France or have a house in Provence but they could easily go along with some words and English. And here you can already see a difference. There seem to be languages you learn for a purpose like English and German and there are languages you learn for pure pleasure like French and Italian.

[Dale]

Great points I find golf a very boring and frustrating hobby give me the gym and a MP3 player anyday.

To continue with what Kirsten posted all the students learning Russian and Spanish for work on my courses has already dropped out. The rest of us are there for fun and we love it and we are progressing quickly with it.

[Steve Kaufmann]

Kirsten,
Here in Canada English Canadians are told to learn French and don't. I think all language learning has to be enjoyable to be effective.

[Steve Kaufmann]

Glen,

What you say just proves that language learning is more a matter of attitude than aptitude.

[Linda]

I agree that its much easier to learn a language for fun then usefulness. I live in India and need to learn Hindi but keep putting it off instead I have been studying French and Spanish which I love. I think if I could only get my head around "hindi for fun" I might actually sit down and study it but I keep using the old saying, " I live here, it will always be there," I dont want to be like the many expats who have lived here over 10 years and only know handful of words.

The thing about hindi is that I have to learn Hindi script to read the literature and even watch the news, where is if I learn the language and only use roman alaphabet I will be limited in materials to practise with. Basically I'm lazy to learn the script, any thoughts on learning just the language without the script???

Thanks, I love the blog,

Linda (Canadian in India)

[Oliver]

The truth is that one can never attain perfection (or even complete fluency) in a foreign language. If s/he is not learning it for fun, s/he might get easily discouraged and give up. Utilitarian approach is flawed if not combined with "hobby-approach".

[victor]

The beginning of the Mark Rosenfelder's article was promising. But then he as usual took 'cognitive science' as a weapon and went around in search of motivation. I was disappointed.

[Bonnie]

Playing golf is torture, languages are fun: that's true for me. One does what one enjoys. Mark Rosenfelder is very interesting, and I don't see any real disagreement between his ideas and those of Steve Kaufmann. This article is not endorsing the idea that language learning need be torturous and hopeless, but the fact is, if you are not motivated to learn, you will not. Period. Mr. Rosenfelder seems to be a fellow-traveller in the world of languagegeekism and his advice, while perhaps stating the obvivious, does not contradict anything I have read or heard from Mr. Kaufmann:

* Read books in the target language.
* Better yet, read comics and magazines. (They're easier, more colloquial, and easier to incorporate into your weekly routine.)
* Buy music that's sung in it; play it while you're doing other things.
* Read websites and participate in newsgroups that use it.
* Play language tapes in your car. If you have none, make some for yourself.
* Hang out in the neighborhood where they speak it.
* Try it out with anyone you know who speaks it. If necessary, go make new friends.
* Seek out opportunities to work using the language.
* Babysit a child, or hire a sitter, who speaks the language.
* Take notes in your classes or at meetings in the language.
* Marry a speaker of the language. (Warning: marry someone patient: some people want you to know their language-- they don't want to teach it. Also, this strategy is tricky for multiple languages.)

[Max]

Personally, all the languages I now speak I've learned for fun and out of personal interest. At school I was forced to take Latin and I hated it a lot. Managed to secure ok grades, but didn't really learn anything at all.

However, I do agree that necessity can be extremely helpful when learning a language. Even if this necessity is more self-imposed than imposed by others. For instance, even before studying Chinese I decided to go to Beijing. With this aim in sight I knew it was necessary for me to learn enough to at least get by. This helped me be more focussed on learning the language and taking it more "serious".

[Dispeopler]

I, too, have only ever actually needed one of the languages I have learned. I do it for fun. LingQ sounds pretty fun, so I came to check it out. Unfortunately, it's down right now :-(

[Dwain DJ Johnson]

i do agree, the reason people just give up on language is because the way its presented in schools as a burden instead of something that will be fun exciting and most of all beneficial in your everyday life.